ORTHODOXY AND PROTESTANTISM

VARIOUS THOUGHTS ON ORTHODOXY &

PROTESTANTISM:

+ "Over the span of 20 years, Evangelical Protestantism was something with which my mind became intimately familiar, while nevertheless remaining unrecognizable to my soul. Thank God for Orthodoxy!" -GMK-

"We must approach the word of God with a desire to change our hearts. We read the Scripture in order to gain salvation- not, as some Protestants believe, because we are already saved without the possibility of falling away, but rather as those desperately trying to keep the salvation which Christ has given us, fully aware of our spiritual poverty. For us, reading the Holy Scripture is literally a matter of life and death."
     -FATHER SERAPHIM ROSE-

+ "In our zeal to proclaim Orthodox Truth, let us be most vigilant in practicing the Truth of Christian love."

-GMK-

+ "Evangelicals claim to love the Bible, but they reject the Church which gave birth to the Bible. They claim to love Christ, but they demean and dishonor the Mother of Christ. They claim salvation by 'faith alone,' but their faith is only in their individualistic and subjective understanding of objectively holy things." -GMK-

+ "The endeavors to reconcile divine paradoxes produce systematic theologies; but they bring us no closer to the experience of God."
-GMK-

+ "The arrogance of the Protestant mind discards holy things because they do not 'measure up' to the criteria of finite human logic. The 'Sola Scripturists' boast of their love for the Holy Bible, yet they sever the Sacred Scriptures from the ecclesiastical context apart from which the Word of God will never be fully understood. Western epistemology has conditioned Western man to lean unto his own understanding rather than bowing before ineffable Holy Mystery and humbly deferring to divine paradox."
-GMK-

+ "As is with politics, theological liberals and theological conservatives are merely two sides of the same coin. Forsaking the True Church and relying on their own arrogant interpretations, they use the Bible as a weapon to elevate their own subjective ideologies while cutting down their fellow man." -GMK-

+ "Evangelicals claim to adhere to the Bible and say they are saved by 'faith alone.' But the only place in Scripture where we find the words 'faith' and 'alone' together is James 2:24, which states that we are 'not saved by faith alone.'" -GMK-

+ "People do not need a 'Reformed Theology;' they need a Church whose Teachings and Truths have remained unchanged and uncorrupted for 2,000 years. The followers of Christ do not seek to reform the ancient apostolic Church, rather they allow the Church to transform their lives. Arrogance seeks to 'reform' the Faith and make it acceptable to human understanding, but humility seeks to conform one's self to the Faith so that one may eternally experience the Author of Faith. Orthodoxy is not 'Reformed Theology,' it is transformational Truth." -GMK-

+ "Protestants think they revere the Bible, but they demonstrate their contempt for the Scriptures by isolating them from the Church which gave birth to them. It's like extolling the benefits of milk while ignoring the cow, or claiming to love eggs while you slaughter the chicken." -GMK-

+ "It's not mere membership, but active participation in the Life of the Church, i.e. the Body of Christ. We cannot claim to have faith if we refuse to continually receive Our Lord through the Sacraments. We cannot claim to have faith if we deny the power of Baptism and reject the very Body and Blood of Our Savior. Spiritual security is only found by remaining within the Shepherd's fold, i.e. His Church. That's why it is so important that we understand what the True Church is, for Our Lord said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Christ never said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against individuals, nations, families, denominations, or governments; but He said that hell shall not prevail against The Church. And the true Church is that which He established through His apostles, whose Teachings and Traditions have remained one and the same for 2,000 years- The Holy Orthodox Church!"
-GMK-

+ "Another important difference between Evangelicalism and Orthodoxy is the idea of 'salvation.' Evangelicals promote the idea that Christ came to punch our ticket to heaven. We just accept Him into our hearts and we are 'saved.' This is an erroneous understanding of God's purpose for our life. We were created to fully experience Him in this earthly life, which is the precursor to the life to come. The purpose of the Cross was to redeem us from sin so that we might become one with God through 'theosis.' As St. Athanasius said, 'God became man so that we might become god.' In other words, by grace we are called to holiness; and through His Church we are given the mystical power to fully experience unity with God in this terrestrial and temporal life. We must stop thinking in terms of being 'saved,' of having our ticket punched to heaven. Instead, we must desire to experience intimacy with Our Lord; for that is why He came to earth and shed His redemptive blood- so that we might experience His fullness, so that we might become 'partakers of the divine nature.' [II Peter 1:4]" -GMK-

 



"In the Holy Fathers we find the mind of the Church- the living understanding of God's revelation. They are our link between the Holy Scriptures and today's reality. Without such a link it is every man for himself- and the result is a myriad of interpretations and sects."
     -FATHER SERAPHIM ROSE-

+ "God alone is the Judge of our hearts. There will be many people in the Kingdom of Heaven who were not Orthodox Christians. But those who willfully reject the True Church having had the opportunity to enter into its grace and truth are rejecting Christ Himself. We cannot just 'do our own thing,' 'go our own way,' believe our own independent doctrines, attend the Church that makes us feel the most comfortable, and then think we have spiritual security. Remember the words of Our Lord Who said, 'Unless you eat of my Body and drink of my Blood, you have no part of me.' [St. John 6:53-56] And many disciples left Him at that point, because Our Lord's words didn't make rational sense to them. So, if we claim to have faith, then we will accept the Teachings and Truth of Christ and His true Church. We will not change the meaning of His words to accommodate our own sin-infested logic. We will not find a 'church' that accommodates our own subjective beliefs. No. Faith in Christ means submission to His Church, acceptance of Orthodox doctrine, and participation in the Holy Sacraments. It is a dangerous thing to live according to our own understanding and claim we are 'saved' simply because we 'believe in Jesus.' As St. James tells us, 'Even the demons believe, and tremble.' [James 2:19]" -GMK-

+ "I used to try and learn so much on my own, but so much of what I learned was wrong. I became 'wise in my own eyes' [Proverbs 26:12] and arrogant in my own misunderstanding. But I could always quote chapter and verse to defend my subjective human theology. But God guided me in His mystical way to His true Church, and He showed me that I need not try to understand Holy things on my own; for Our Lord has provided His Church to guide us in these mystical and spiritual matters. So we need only to pray, fast, and profess what the apostles professed. We need only come to Christ as a little child- thirsty, neeedy, dependent, and humbly trusting in Him. And His Church - not 'church,' but His Church - is the means by which we may draw near to Our Lord in childlike faith, accepting Holy Mysteries that are offensive to sinful logic but satisfying to our thirsty souls."   -Lord have Mercy-

-GMK- 

+ "For all the love they claim to have for the Bible, Protestants don't even have the entire Bible! So their faith is based on partial truth, not the whole Truth. And partial truth is often the greatest lie."  -GMK-

+ "Orthodoxy is not in the business of condemning people to hell (unlike many Evangelical fundamentalists.) Orthodoxy is grace- in its fullest and truest sense. Everything the Church teaches and offers is for our benefit and blessing. Whether or not we avail ourselves of these things is up to us. And while all Orthodox Chiristians are One, we are each at different stages of spiritual development. But in corporate participation in the Sacraments and corporate confession of Orthodox Truth, we are strengthened and preserved unto the Day of Judgment." -GMK-

+ "It is ironic that Evangelicals claim to interpret the Bible literally, yet they dismiss the literalness of Christ's words upon which our very salvation depends: 'Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life.' [St. John 6:54]" -GMK-

+ "Protestants may question why the Sacraments, Teachings, and Traditions of Orthodoxy are necessary, since all that matters is having a relationship with Christ. But Christian relationship means interaction with God the Father, and it means availing ourselves of the gifts of Christ and the Holy Spirit. It is through the Orthodox Church that Christians will experience the fullness and depth of God's Sacraments, Mysteries, and blessings.

       A child who claims to love his father will not disregard and reject his father's embrace, his father's gifts, or his father's teachings. But many professed Christians disregard and ignore the divine revelations, divine expressions, and divine gifts that God offers His children through His Holy Orthodox Church. Christ is the greatest gift given to humanity; and humanity will never be able to experience the fullness of this gift apart from the Church that Christ has established." -GMK-

 

 

+ "All manmade religions are the same in that they are unable to lead men to God. Contrary to all manmade religions, the Orthodox Church is the divinely established institution through which God makes Himself available to man. We can go to Heaven God's way, or we can go to hell any way we like." -GMK-

+ "The Church exists to accommodate the needs of our soul, not our individual comforts, preferences, and desires. We are all at different spiritual levels, but we should all be striving for holiness and 'theosis.' So the Teachings, Traditions, and practices of the Church exist to inspire, motivate, encourage, discipline, and comfort us in our spiritual progress. Orthodoxy is about struggle, and it is in the midst of true spiritual struggle that we truly experience divine grace. Any form of Christianity that seeks to eradicate struggle from the essence of the Christian life is a false Christianity preaching a counterfeit gospel.

       Orthodox inquirers who say, 'I love the incense and the icons, and the chanting is beautiful. But I don't like all that standing, and the fasting seems so legalistic,' etc. must be quickly disabused of their individualistic approach to assessing the Church. There are plenty of Protestant sects and denominations from which they can choose if they want a 'spirituality' that conforms to their own personal desires.

       I am an Orthodox Christian who falls far short in the practice of my Faith. But I realize that there is more spiritual benefit in striving and failing than in not struggling at all." 

             -Lord have mercy.-    -GMK-

       "We strive to be at odds with the world in this sinful and adulterous generation, one in which the wisdom of the world has so obscured the Way, the Truth, and the Life that all are in danger of being led into apostasy. This is a time when evil is everywhere proclaimed as good. In such a time, we cling to the Tradition of the Church as it has been preserved through the ages, so that we don't have to rely on our own understanding of the truth, tainted as it is by the spirit of the world. We know also that these are days in which, if we cling to this Holy Tradition, people will kill us and think they are doing God a favor. (St. John 16:2)"

-FATHER MOSES BERRY-

+ ‎"Those that understand love will recognize true theology; and those that do not understand theology will nevertheless recognize true love."
-GMK-

+ "We must speak Orthodoxy to heresy, and strive to let our lives be the most convincing voice." -GMK-

+"A question for my Protestant, ‘Sola Scriptura’ friends:

         If the Church Fathers were wrong about infant baptism, icons, the Eucharist, communion of saints, etc., then how can we possibly trust that they were right about which written texts were worthy of biblical canonization?" -GMK-

SHOCKING WORDS TO THE PRESBYTERIANS
 By
Terry Mattingly

Scripps Howard News Service 7/21/2010

Anyone who attends one of the national church assemblies that dot the calendar every summer knows that they are highly ritualized affairs.

Officers will be elected.

Political issues will be discussed. Lofty resolutions will be passed.

At least one long business session will include a proposal about clergy benefits and salaries.

In recent decades, gatherings in the "seven sisters" of mainline Protestantism have also -- to varying degrees -- featured battles over sex. These flocks are, in descending order of size, the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), the Episcopal Church, the American Baptist Churches USA, the United Church of Christ and the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

But as the hours pass, veterans know that they can take breaks whenever the word "greeting" appears in the agenda, marking a polite mini-speech by a visiting civic leader or religious dignitary.

But something unusual happened recently during the 219th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). An official "ecumenical advisory delegate" -- Father Siarhei Hardun of the Orthodox Church of Belarus -- used his moment at the podium to deliver a message that was courteous and stunning at the same time, if not genuinely offensive to many in the audience.

"Frankly, he was pretty sly about what he said and how he said it," noted the Rev. Carmen S. Fowler, president of the conservative Presbyterian Lay Committee. "People are used to dozing off during these greetings, so this caught them off guard. ... Most of the General Assembly yawned its way through the most provocative moment of the whole event."

Speaking in clear, but careful, English, Hardun thanked the Presbyterians for the economic aid that helped Orthodox churches in his land rebuild social ministries after decades of bloody communist persecution. Only 20 years ago, he noted, there were 370 parishes left and, today, there are more than 1,500. He thanked the assembly for its kindness and hospitality.

However, the Orthodox priest ended by offering his take on the assembly's debates as it prepared for another attempt to modernize Christian doctrines on sexuality. Shortly before his "greeting," the commissioners voted 373-323 to approve, for the fifth time in two decades, the ordination of noncelibate gays and lesbians. Regional presbyteries must now approve the measure, which is the stage at which previous efforts were defeated -- by increasingly smaller margins.

"Christian morality is as old as Christianity itself. It doesn't need to be invented now. Those attempts to invent new morality look for me like attempts to invent a new religion -- a sort of modern paganism," said Hardun, drawing scattered applause.

"When people say that they are led and guided by the Holy Spirit to do it, I wonder if it is the same Holy Spirit that inspired the Bible, if it is the same Holy Spirit that inspires the Holy Orthodox Church not to change anything in Christian doctrine and moral standards. But if it is the same Spirit, I wonder ... if there are different spirits acting in different denominations and inspiring them to develop in different directions and to create different theologies and different morals?"

The priest closed with a quote from St. Paul, urging the Presbyterians: "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

Later in that business day, a slim 51 percent of the assembly voted to defeat a proposal to redefine marriage as a holy covenant between "two people," rather than one between "a man and a woman."

General Assembly moderator Cindy Bolbach -- an outspoken advocate of the gay-rights measures -- offered no comment whatsoever about Hardun's remarks when he left the podium, but quickly moved on to other business. However, before her election she urged her church not to fear the repercussions of an era of change. The denomination has lost half of its members since the 1960s.

"We have to learn how to proclaim the Gospel in a multicultural age where Christianity is no longer at the center," she said. "We have to learn how to tell people who have grown suspicious of institutions why an institution like the P.C. (U.S.A.) can be of value to them. ... And we have to accept the loss of the church we have always known -- as the church transforms itself into something new."

Lutheran World Federation Pushes 'One Church' Efforts
Thu, Jul. 22 2010 11:14 AM EDT

By Audrey Barrick

Christian Post Reporter

Talks of a continued commitment toward ecumenism, or church unity, dominated the stage Wednesday at the Lutheran World Federation's assembly.

Lutheran World Federation President Bishop Mark S. Hanson speaks at the LWF assembly in Stuttgart, Germany, July 21, 2010.

The Lutheran commitment to ecumenism will not end until we can share the Eucharist with other churches, LWF President Bishop Mark S. Hanson said Wednesday at the assembly, which is being held in Stuttgart, Germany.

"If Roman Catholics and Lutherans [for example] can feed the hungry together, wouldn’t it be good if they could be fed at the Lord’s Table together?" he posed.

LWF is the world's largest communion of Lutheran churches, representing over 70 million Christians in 79 countries. It holds an assembly every six years. This year's meeting drew leaders and representatives from the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Communion, the United Methodist Church and the World Communion of Reformed Churches.

LWF has pursued deeper relations with each of the global church bodies. One of the landmark ecumenical events was the 1999 signing of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

"To be the Lutheran World Federation: A Communion of Churches is to be ecumenical," said Hanson in his report. "When a radically inclusive communion is God’s gift to us in Christ and at the center of our self-understanding we will always define ourselves first in terms of our relatedness to others in the body of Christ.

"We gather in Stuttgart as more than fragments who momentarily put together the semblance of a whole. We gather because we are one by God’s grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. God’s gift of unity will be experienced and expressed again and again in the midst of our varied diversity and even our differences."

Regarding differences on human sexuality, Hanson encouraged Christians to begin the conversation by identifying what they have in common – such as "we are all sexual beings" – rather than from a position of judgment. His comments come nearly a year after the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, of which he is the presiding bishop, opened the door to allow partnered gays and lesbians to serve as clergy.

He expressed concerns over emerging conversations in some Lutheran churches about what it means to be truly Lutheran.

"I sense that there is a growing desire on the part of some to look at our rich, shared confessions not as a reason for conversation about how we can live in that confessional tradition, but rather as a way of determining who is truly Lutheran and who is not," he said, noting that he desires to see full unity among Lutherans themselves. "That would be an unfortunate breakdown."

Hanson called for not only affirming the theological and confessional foundations they share as Lutherans, but also for renewing a commitment "that to be Lutheran is to be both evangelical and ecumenical."

LWF General Secretary the Rev. Dr Ishmael Noko recalled in his address the statement they adopted in 2007. Rather than see themselves as "the Church," LWF views itself as a movement within the "one Church."

"We are aware that we need other Christians," Noko said.

Interfaith Diapraxis, or practical cooperation across religious borders, has been a special focus of the life of the LWF since 2003, he highlighted.

And continuing that commitment, this year LWF delegates will be asked to take an action that would redefine their relations with Mennonites – a group of Christian Anabaptist denominations.

Noko lamented that the two bodies have been estranged for 500 years and that their Lutheran confessions "have very harsh things to say" about the Mennonites.

Though there are "several reasons given for why churches are not fully sharing the one bread in the Eucharist," Tveit said, "there are even more important theological and moral reasons why we continue to do anything we can do to come to the same table and have a common sharing of the one bread."

LWF will consider an action that asks for forgiveness "for the persecution and violence of which our Lutheran forebears were guilty, and of which we are the inheritors," Noko said.

Also present at the LWF assembly is World Council of Churches General Secretary the Rev. Dr Olav Fykse Tveit who lauded LWF's ecumenical efforts.

"You are known for your commitment to peace with justice, to mission, diakonia and to ecumenical dialogue and inter-religious cooperation. Let it be so also in the future," he encouraged.

+^"The question to my beloved Protestant friends is this: How can these 'churches' share the Eucharist when they deny the Eucharist? 'Liberal' and 'Conservative' Protestants suffer from the same disease- they deny, dismiss, and rationalize away the essential Mysteries of the Faith. Superficial ecumenism is the inevitable illness of the heterodox cancer. The above article demonstrates this all too well." -GMK-

ASSURANCE?

+ "Evangelicals frequently ask us Orthodox why we don't speak of having 'assurance of salvation.' Here is a brief response to this question I was once again recently asked :

       The word 'assurance' is used 5 times in the New Testament, but the word 'faith' is used almost 200 times. As Orthodox believers, we have faith in Christ which is demonstrated by our:

       -Faith in the Church, (against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail.) [St. Matthew 16:18]

       -Faith in the Sacraments (which demonstrates true repentance and true belief in Christ. For true repentance means embracing the waters of baptism, and true faith means receiving Christ in the Mystery of the Eucharist throughout our lives- not merely receiving Him via a 'one time profession of faith.' And faith is not using mortal rationale to reduce Holy Mysteries to mere spiritual symbols; rather, it is prostrating our entire selves before ineffable divinity and accepting the Teachings and Traditions of the apostolic Faith which have been instituted by Our Lord Himself.)

       -Faith in the Scriptures (not faith in our own individual interpretations of Scripture, but faith in in the divinely guided interpretations of the Church.)

       Now with faith in these things - which involves active, consistent, and corporate participation on our part - we have a confidence, a hope, and a peace that permeates our lives. We do not live in fear of a wrathful God Whose justice and honor must be forensically appeased; we live instead for our loving and merciful God to Whom we wish to draw ever nearer through the graces He has provided us.

       We do not speak of 'assurance of salvation' because we do not want to be guilty of presumption and pride. Rather we speak of divine mercy and grace, in which we not only have faith, but which actually is our Faith. And we know that authentic faith dispels fear, pride, presumption, and despair.

       We trust not in our own fickle faith, but in the Faith which has been instituted by Christ, established by the apostles, and preserved by the Fathers throughout the centuries. When our own faith wavers, the Church remains "rock" solid. When our own theological and biblical understanding fails, the Mysteries of the Faith remain certain and salvific.  
-GMK-

An excellent article on Orthodoxy and Protestantism can be read here:
http://japocalypse.blogspot.com/2010/08/provocation-of-god.html